Rick Hess: Arne, some readers could not know a lot about your efforts because you served as secretary of schooling for President Obama. Are you able to speak a bit about what you’re targeted on and what drew you to that work?
Arne Duncan: Since 2016, my main focus has been on lowering gun violence in Chicago. I’ve helped develop and lead a corporation known as Chicago CRED that engages with people at excessive threat of capturing somebody or being shot and helps give them a pathway out of the streets and into the authorized financial system. This very a lot got here from a spot of private ache. As a young person, I used to play basketball on the south and west sides, and among the older guys would defend me and provides me secure passage—and I began dropping a few of them to gun violence. As CEO of the Chicago public colleges, I misplaced a scholar to gun violence on common each two weeks. As secretary of schooling, my worst day ever was Sandy Hook, and after I returned to Chicago in 2016, gun violence was worse than I had ever seen it. I simply couldn’t stand by and do nothing. The whole lot else felt secondary.
Hess: What’s that work contain, and what have you ever discovered from it?
Duncan: I work with a whole lot of principally younger males, but in addition many ladies, to assist them change their lives. Most of them grew up in road life, the place weapons, medicine, and the unlawful financial system had been the one paths open for them. They by no means had the possibility to dwell usually. We’re attempting to present them a chance to thrive by supplying them with a life coach, trauma remedy, schooling, and job coaching. All through this work, I’ve discovered that we now have missed a lot expertise. These women and men are leaders, they’re artistic, and they’re able to something.
Hess: On the subject of faculty security, what sorts of options do you suppose have probably the most promise?
Duncan: In case you’re speaking concerning the type of mass shootings which have occurred in locations like Sandy Hook and Parkland, I’m 100% in favor of legal guidelines that cut back entry to weapons—particularly assault weapons. In case you’re speaking about in-school violence that principally doesn’t embrace weapons, I want to see much less give attention to police and extra reliance on folks with belief and respect who can intervene earlier than disputes escalate. Many individuals who work for Chicago CRED have prison backgrounds that stop them from working in colleges, however they’ve so much to supply to younger folks. They perceive their lives as a result of they’ve lived it. They will earn their belief in ways in which individuals who haven’t lived the road life by no means can. They will de-escalate conditions brilliantly. They don’t speak right down to college students who’re in conditions much like those they had been in rising up. And the younger folks see themselves in our guys and suppose, if they’ll do it, so can I. They’re simply this enormous untapped useful resource to assist cut back gun violence, however they’re not able to try this due to employment obstacles. We have to change that.
Hess: Wanting again, what’s a very powerful lesson you suppose you discovered throughout your time in Washington as secretary of schooling?
Duncan: Listening is an underrated talent. If you wish to be useful to folks, you actually should hearken to them and allow them to know they’ve been heard. When you do this, you possibly can have a greater dialogue. The expertise additionally affirmed that there isn’t any one-size-fits-all resolution. I knew this as a district chief in Chicago, however touring across the nation and seeing colleges all throughout America strengthened it. The job will not be about telling folks what to do. It’s about giving them the assist and alternative to succeed.
Hess: I’m curious if there’s a time or concern throughout your tenure as secretary the place you would like you might’ve had a do-over?
Duncan: I believe the teacher-evaluation concern was one which I had hoped we may make extra progress on, however academics simply felt overwhelmed up over it. We had the union leaders on board, however they couldn’t persuade their members that this could assist them and strengthen their occupation.
Hess: What do you suppose folks get mistaken about Obama’s schooling document?
Duncan: There’s a false narrative that we pressured change upon states and districts, however we actually didn’t. We had been extra about carrots than sticks. We tried to vary the motivation construction to do the proper factor—increase requirements, present some academic choices to folks, strengthen the educating occupation, and switch round struggling colleges.
Hess: What do you make of the schooling panorama as we speak?
Duncan: The panorama is blended. Reform has taken a backseat within the Covid period, and now, we’re simply attempting to catch up. With the Covid-relief funds drying up, there are new fiscal challenges for college districts and states. I’d prefer to see us shift our focus onto issues like expanded early studying, highschool rigor, and postsecondary entry. I’d prefer to see us foster extra tolerance and reduce pressure over points like race, gender, and educational freedom.
Hess: You point out “highschool rigor,” which is one thing that will get much less consideration than it deserves. What do you take note of?
Duncan: Extra AP courses. Extra alternatives for college-level programs. Extra postsecondary coaching. Mainly, our schooling system ought to reply to the scholars and what they’re asking for—and what they’re prepared for. A lot of them are prepared for an even bigger problem even in highschool. It might sound radical, however an schooling system ought to assist each scholar go so far as they’ll and so far as they need. Most faculties aren’t constructed like that.
Hess: Throughout your tenure in Washington, you had some well-publicized tensions with the academics unions. What do you consider the position the unions are taking part in as we speak?
Duncan: At greatest, unions are efficient advocates for educating and studying. I don’t see them standing in the best way of change as we speak, however I additionally don’t see lots of people attempting to drive change. As an alternative, faculty techniques are simply attempting to maintain their heads above water—and it’s laborious to drive change in that atmosphere.
Hess: Your level right here about leaders “simply attempting to maintain their heads above water” jogs my memory of a dialogue you and I had final yr a couple of dearth of management in schooling as we speak. What may change that?
Duncan: I believe the difficulty will come again round once more. Somebody will concern a brand new report displaying that we’re nonetheless prone to falling behind within the expertise race or one thing else. The massive phase of silent dad and mom who should not within the tradition wars however simply need their youngsters to get a very good schooling will discover a new voice. It’s inevitable that some nice new studying approaches will emerge, and other people will begin asking, why can’t all youngsters have that? I’ve religion that folks will demand extra of their colleges.
Hess: What are the largest modifications you see since your time as secretary?
Duncan: Enrollment declines in some huge cities like my hometown of Chicago have actual penalties. It appears that evidently some dad and mom are giving up on the system. Additionally, it’s much less of a front-burner concern than it was after I was in Washington. One other shift is the emergence of tradition wars, that are distracting and counterproductive. There’s a distinction between schooling as a voting concern and schooling as a political soccer. It ought to unite us—not divide us.
Hess: Clearly, there are many clickbait tradition warriors. However there are additionally extra critical figures on left and proper who’d argue that these cultural debates aren’t a distraction however a mirrored image of basic tensions. What’s your take for these navigating all this?
Duncan: Dad and mom and academics can have an trustworthy dialogue about when and introduce a subject like intercourse schooling into colleges, however when it devolves into banning books by Toni Morrison or To Kill a Mockingbird, it appears we now have overpassed the aim—to point out our kids the reality about ourselves and our historical past. Colleges must be secure locations for everybody—no matter race, gender id, immigrant standing, and so forth.
Hess: Is it nonetheless attainable for Democrats and Republicans to search out widespread floor on schooling?
Duncan: As chair of the Hunt Institute, I work intently with the previous Republican governor of New Mexico, Susana Martinez. As well as, I’ve all the time gotten together with my predecessor as schooling secretary, Margaret Spellings. I’ve all the time labored intently with governors on each side of the aisle. It’s the tradition warriors who wish to do issues like ban books who’re driving us aside. However most of that’s hype. I’ve a whole lot of religion in dad and mom and academics to face as much as the extremists in terms of the schooling of their kids.
Hess: OK, final query. As you and I’ve mentioned earlier than, it seems like civic leaders and public officers are much less targeted on faculty enchancment than they had been a decade in the past. What do you suppose it can take for that dynamic to vary?
Duncan: The reality all the time helps. Let’s simply get again to telling the reality about our children and our colleges—the progress, the outcomes, the nice, the dangerous, and the ugly—and belief that folks will get past their variations and do the proper factor for his or her youngsters.
