- EO Charging supplies a turnkey service for car fleets, together with all of the {hardware}, software program and repair components of the electrification stack. President and Chief Industrial Officer John Walsh informed us that the software program and upkeep layers of the stack are the keys to charger reliability.
- Fleets typically overestimate the quantity of energy they’ll must preserve their EVs charged. Detailed modeling within the early phases of a mission, together with good vitality administration, might help a fleet keep away from the prices and delays concerned with upgrading a utility connection.
- Totally different fleets have completely different infrastructure wants. EO charging presents month-to-month fee plans based mostly on the variety of chargers, kilowatt-hours delivered, or miles traveled, to be able to handle completely different buyer wants.
Q&A with EO Charging’s John Walsh
How is offering charging infrastructure for EV fleets like operating a site or a cellphone community? All of those worthy endeavors (amongst others) rely upon a stack, which is a hip method of describing a system of interrelated {hardware} and software program merchandise that perform collectively.
Some layers of the stack could also be easy, and others could also be advanced. Some could also be seen as commodities, and others might rely upon extremely specialised proprietary expertise. Some could also be set-it-and-forget-it techniques which are anticipated to work easily, and others could also be—for need of a greater time period—a ache within the neck.
In an rising area resembling EV charging infrastructure, it might be laborious for potential clients to determine how the completely different layers of the stack match collectively, and which layers require particular consideration. So as to add to the confusion, the forged of characters is giant, and the relationships amongst them may be advanced—just like the record of dramatis personae in a Victorian novel. Some corporations specialise in one layer of the stack, and others supply a turnkey bundle, offering all of the services themselves and/or subcontracting with different corporations.
What’s the perfect course for a fleet operator to steer? Does it make sense to combine and match completely different corporations for various layers of the stack, or is it higher to contract with a turnkey supplier, maybe for a hard and fast month-to-month value? For some solutions, Charged sat down with John Walsh, President and Chief Industrial Officer of EO Charging, who defined how the layers of the EV fleet charging infrastructure stack match collectively, and supplied some ideas for patrons.
Charged: What sort of clients does EO Charging serve?
John Walsh: We do all depot charging, so our goal clients are transit authorities, faculty districts and fleets, resembling Amazon, FedEx, UPS, DHL. Additionally, the truck OEMs which are beginning to come on-line now—Daimler, Bollinger, Workhorse—we’re focusing on these as properly.
The issue on this trade is that everybody’s all concerning the cupboard and the {hardware}. That’s the most important problem with charging in the present day—everybody thinks, “Man, if I may simply get that wall field on the wall or get that charger within the floor, I’ve received what I want.” And it’s solely the start.
Charged: You have been previously Chief Industrial Officer at Proterra, an organization that we’ve written about loads. I for one thought it was an amazing firm, and I used to be shocked when issues turned pear-shaped. What occurred?
John Walsh: What occurred to Proterra by means of the lens of John Walsh could be very disappointing. I left the corporate over a 12 months in the past, slightly bit earlier than the storm hit, as a result of I noticed the ship sinking. We went public, we did a SPAC, we had quite a lot of capital that received burned by means of very quick, and…simply mismanagement, I’d say, greater than something.
However don’t surrender on Proterra. The corporate was bought in three items—battery techniques, chargers and buses—and there are three completely different house owners now. Proterra had the perfect battery expertise on the planet, and it’s nonetheless the perfect battery expertise. There are quite a lot of corporations that can use their battery techniques and have quite a lot of success. I believe the Volvo Group [which bought Proterra’s battery business] will prosper by means of the expertise that was given beginning by Proterra.
Sorting by means of the stack
Charged: For fleets, there are quite a lot of items to the charging puzzle. You could have your individual proprietary software program, and also you supply a full turnkey bundle for fleets.
John Walsh: We do. It’s known as a stack, and it’s actually six easy factors.
The primary half is session, the place you sit down and perceive the utility, perceive the depot.
The second piece is your design and your set up—you dig up the bottom and you set the chargers in.
The third bullet is the {hardware}—we do enterprise with about six OEM {hardware} corporations. And to us, it’s a buyer’s alternative. We’ll give them what we really feel like are some good options based mostly on the facility ranges that they want. If you speak to EO Charging, you’re not speaking to ABB, Heliox or Siemens—you’re speaking to all of them as a result of we’re hardware-agnostic.
The fourth piece is the software program. And this is part of the stack that’s actually essential that folks neglect. The software program is your fourth bullet, then your fifth bullet is upkeep “Oh, wow. You imply you need to preserve the chargers?” Nicely, it is advisable to preserve your automobile, proper? So, completely.
After which the final piece, and possibly an important piece we’ve got, is a technical operations middle [TOC]. When you’ve got a cellphone, there’s a technical operations middle that’s resetting your cellphone all day lengthy, and also you don’t even realize it. That’s what we’re capable of do—we will see that charger within the floor.
We’ll do components of the stack a la carte. The one factor we won’t decouple is the software program and the upkeep. In the event you decide a software program supplier and a separate upkeep supplier, then it’s two completely different cellphone calls. That’s what clients are pissed off with. One cellphone name for that full stack—design it for me, put it within the floor, give me the {hardware}, preserve it for me for 10 years—that’s the answer they’re searching for, and that’s what we do.
Considered one of our authentic traders was an organization known as Amazon, they usually demanded 99% uptime. And that’s what we provide clients. You might ask Amazon, “Inform me about EO, and inform me about your uptime,” they usually’d say it’s 99.7. They are going to inform you that, not us—they’re a really demanding buyer.
“We’ll do components of the stack a la carte. The one factor we won’t decouple is the software program and the upkeep.”
Depot chargers are dependable, aren’t they?
Charged: Charger reliability is a scandal, and I strongly suspect that quite a lot of the issues are as a result of there is likely to be half a dozen corporations and organizations concerned with a mission.
John Walsh: You’ve hit the nail on the top. We do companion with sure clients or sure corporations. For engineering, we would companion with somebody. I’ll companion on the prime of the stack, however as soon as it’s within the floor, it’s all me. It’s my software program, it’s my upkeep, it’s my TOC, and that’s the important thing to reliability that everybody’s complaining about.
Charged: Now, I do know you don’t do public charging, you solely do fleet depot charging. I’m guessing the latter doesn’t have as many challenges with reliability. Am I proper?
John Walsh: No.It’s simply as unhealthy. I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I used to be as soon as at an APTA [American Public Transportation Association] assembly—all transit businesses—and I requested them, “Who has 90% reliability at your depots? Who has 80% reliability?” It was once I received to 70% and 60% that folks began elevating their arms. It’s not a quantity that we’re making up.
If we go to a buyer they usually say, “We’ve received three completely different manufacturers of chargers on this large depot as a result of we purchased them at completely different occasions, and we ended up shopping for ABB, Siemens and Heliox,” we are saying we don’t care. They could have to take a look at three screens. They’ve three completely different software program packages and three completely different upkeep techniques. With us, it’s all on one display. I believe that’s actually what our secret sauce is, and that’s the most important promoting level of our firm—the {hardware} is agnostic to the software program, and we’re capable of see all the things in a single spot from an operations middle.
“I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I as soon as requested a gaggle of transit businesses about reliability at their depots, and it was solely once I received to 70% and 60% that folks began elevating their arms.”
For these about to impress
Charged: How about some handy-dandy ideas for fleet operators? What are a number of the issues that may go improper, and the way can they keep away from them?
John Walsh: The one you hear essentially the most is “It’s essential pay money for your utility yesterday.” And to me, that’s a broad reply. What does that imply? Once I attain the utility, what do I ask them? There’s so many fleet operators, massive, massive corporations, that simply don’t know what to do.
What’s the distinction between a UPS facility and an Amazon facility? They’re in all probability 50 years aside. UPS, they’ve been round for an extended, very long time, in order that they have buildings that they by no means thought they might electrify. Then you may have Amazon—most of their buildings are model new, and they’re getting ready for electrification. So, the error I believe will get made is, should you take UPS for example, they’re going to say, “We received 100 vans. We’ve got to cost all of them. We’ve received one megawatt of energy coming into the constructing. We’d like 5.” And they’ll instantly contact that utility, as a result of that’s what everybody tells them to do, and inform them, “I want 4 megawatts extra energy.” And that’s while you hear everyone busting out laughing at the back of the room.
Nicely, they don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they suppose. We do quite a lot of modeling for patrons. “That is what number of autos we’ve got. That is the vitality storage on board, and that is how a lot energy we’ve got on the depot.” We mannequin for them the scale charger they want, however we additionally assist them handle the vitality as soon as it comes into the constructing. I ship it in two completely different instructions. I ship it to the power conveyor belts, and I ship it to the chargers, however I’m not going to cost these EVs all day lengthy. I’m going to cost them at particular occasions of night time at a sure energy stage.
Don’t over-capitalize the mission. Do your homework and take into consideration how a lot energy you really want into that facility. You possibly can work with the utility on that, but in addition work with corporations like EO that can assist you determine that piece out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash—and I’m speaking tens of millions of {dollars}—to place energy right into a constructing that you simply’re by no means going to make use of. That’s in all probability the most important mistake I’ve seen in doing 200 deployments on the depot aspect.
If we hear a buyer say, “Nicely, we’re simply doing a pilot,” we are saying, “Okay, however the place do you go from there?” They are saying, “I’m going to do 10 buses, and I’m going to do 10 chargers, and let’s see the way it goes.” That’s actually not a good suggestion. What we’re doing quite a lot of proper now with clients that did that 10 years in the past, we’re ripping all the things out—rip and substitute. Now, the expertise’s modified, I’ll offer you that. However on the identical time, they actually didn’t do a correct job of setting themselves as much as scale.
There was a transit authority up in Canada that constructed a brand-new facility, 400 buses beneath one roof. They knew from the start they have been going to cost 400 buses, however they solely did 60 to start with. However the facility, the lanes have been arrange so they may simply add the chargers as they went alongside. The whole lot within the facility was able to go. Planning for scale is one thing that’s tremendous, tremendous essential.
“Fleets don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they suppose. Don’t over-capitalize the mission. Work with corporations like EO that can assist you determine that out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash to place energy right into a constructing that you simply’re by no means going to make use of.”
Charged: I think (I’ve a suspicious thoughts about this stuff) that 10 years in the past, a few of these fleets thought, “We received a authorities grant, so we’ll do a pilot, and that’ll fulfill the greenies, after which we’ll return to enterprise as typical.”
John Walsh: That’s proper. I believe that’s precisely what they have been pondering. Is it political? It may be in some instances the place we’ve got to take care of a authorities mandate. What I really like about Florida, there’s so many shoppers which are going electrical that don’t must. One of many first electrical fleets within the US was Star Metro, the transit authority in Tallahassee, and people buses function on Florida State’s campus. Now, these buses, 14 years in the past, they solely went 30 miles on a single cost. How did they handle that? They used en route charging. Nicely, in the present day, on an electrical bus, you may go 250 miles. Now, their chargers are on the depot, like an everyday fueling station. They refill at night time, they usually run all day lengthy.
Cost your fleet for one month-to-month payment
Charged: You supply a whole turnkey service for a month-to-month fee. How does that work?
John Walsh: We’ll bundle our Stage 2 charger with the software program, the upkeep, the technical operations middle, and cost one month-to-month payment—it’s $59. That bundle is actually engaging to quite a lot of fleet clients.
We provide a month-to-month fee by charger, by kilowatt-hour, or by mile. A buyer can select their program, as a result of their wants differ. Some clients have quite a lot of idle time. Some clients are placing quite a lot of miles on the market. Some are charging and discharging fairly a bit as properly. I’ve DHL in New York Metropolis, they usually say, “We don’t want quite a lot of batteries on our vans, as a result of, in your entire day, we would go 20 miles,” as a result of they’re caught in site visitors in Manhattan. That’s completely different from any person in Kansas that is likely to be operating a good distance. So, we need to give these choices to clients and allow them to select.
Charged: Are there some conditions the place a buyer assumes they’re going to want DC quick chargers, however they are able to get by with the Stage 2 and keep away from a number of the procurement bottlenecks?
John Walsh: Yeah, that’s precisely what occurs. We’ve got our personal charger known as the Genius Fleet, which is a Stage 2 charger, 19.2 kilowatts. We really feel prefer it matches with quite a lot of fleet clients as a result of they’re going to make use of a Rivian van or a Ford E-Transit that has roughly 100 kWh of storage on board. The dimensions of the charger is actually engaging—you don’t must get right into a Stage 3, which may be very costly. And the neat factor concerning the Genius is we’ve got them in stock. There’s no ready on switchgear or charger {hardware}. If a buyer says, “I want 10 chargers,” we will ship them inside 24 hours. We’ve got them warehoused across the nation.
We make our personal Stage 2 charger in Europe, however the one we’ve got right here within the US is made for us by IoTecha. After which on the DC charger aspect, ZEROVA, Kempower, ABB, a number of of those producers, while you see our label on it, you need to stroll across the again of the charger to see that it’s any person else’s. We try this simply from a branding standpoint, however once more, we’re agnostic to the {hardware}. So long as it’s OCPP 1.6-compliant and we get good service from them, we’re joyful.
The standard questions on tendencies
Charged: Persons are predicting a wave of consolidation within the EVSE {hardware} market. There’s quite a lot of corporations, and a few them not too long ago went belly-up: Tritium, Freewire.
John Walsh: I believe it’s a development. There’s completely going to be consolidation. With fleet, faculty bus and transit, that {hardware} has to fulfill Purchase America requirements. That implies that that charger needs to be inbuilt america, and it has to have 70% US content material. That shrinks down the variety of corporations. Just lately, you in all probability noticed that Siemens purchased out Heliox. We expect that’s a great factor as a result of we predict Heliox has a extremely good product and actually good service.
Are there too many charger corporations? I don’t know that there’s ever an excessive amount of of something. I’d say we want the best variety of charger producers that construct good merchandise and may service their merchandise. And that’s the place EO is available in on the service and upkeep aspect. However I believe consolidation is completely going to occur.
Charged: How far alongside are we with the Megawatt Charging System?
John Walsh: We’ve got a bunch of them within the floor. We provide a 1.44-megawatt charging system, and I find it irresistible as a result of it’s possibly half the scale of a van, and it matches within the nook of the depot. I can cost 40 autos on one charger, and I can put in a 60 kW, a 150 kW output. I can combine and match it for a buyer, which is very nice. It’s a cost-saver, it’s simpler to keep up, and it permits a buyer to actually scale as a result of they put that within the nook of a depot, after which they’ll add one other one and one other one, they usually can actually get their entire fleet electrified with out chargers taking on area.
Charged: So, MCS permits you not solely to cost one car at a super-high charge, however it means that you can break up that up. Is that one thing you may’t do with CCS?
John Walsh: You possibly can, however you’re restricted—let’s say you are taking a 150 kW charger, you may put two dispensers on it, however that’s all you are able to do. On this one MCS charger, I can put 40 dispensers, and I can cost concurrently or sequentially. It actually offers you versatility.
Charged: What about V2G? Is it nonetheless a pilot-stage expertise, or are you aware of some industrial functions?
John Walsh: We’re partnering with BorgWarner on V2G. I do know them rather well as a result of they acquired Rhombus, which was one in all our companions at Proterra. They do have the expertise, however it’s nonetheless very a lot in a pilot stage. The varsity bus market actually needs it, they usually need it at scale. I believe V2G will get pushed by the shopper. Dwelling right here in Florida, if we’ve got a storm and the electrical energy goes down, properly, I’ve received an influence station proper right here—we’ve received 1,000 faculty buses sitting there filled with vitality. I simply must have the potential to drag it off that bus and into one other car or a facility. However I nonetheless suppose it’s in pilot—I can’t offer you an instance of a industrial software the place I’m seeing it at scale but.
